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Four Difficult Issues to Understand Part 3: full transcript and answers

Four Difficult Issues to Understand · Part 3 · Pastor David G. Kincer, Vine Cluster Church · Uploaded June 25, 2014 · 31:49

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From the sermonFour Difficult Issues to Understand Part 3 · Pastor David G. Kincer▶ 0:00

In this third part Pastor David G. Kincer argues from Revelation 20, Psalm 90, 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Peter 3 that the thousand years is a period of time in which Christ and his people already reign, that the first resurrection was the resurrection of Jesus and the saints of old, and that Gog and Magog stand for the deceived nations of the earth. He rejects the pre-tribulation rapture and says there is one second coming, with fire, and that believers should live holy lives now.

What problems does he see with the pre-tribulation rapture chart, and what is amillennialism?

▶ Watch this part (0:00)

Short answer: He returns to the pre-tribulation rapture chart and says “this is just one of the problems of pre-tribulation rapture theory.” He says there are about eight theories of the second coming, and that “the biggest doctrine on the second coming is amillennialism,” meaning “no millennial.” He says the Catholic Church holds that view and that a church cannot get you to heaven: “you and Christ is what get you to heaven.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 0:00 We’re going to go into the thousand years, so I got to show you the pre-tribulation rapture theory again. Here’s the rapture over here, seven years of tribulation, and then the second return, uh, they don’t call this the second return, they call it a rapture, and then the second return, and the first resurrection, and then the millennium. You see this fire here, I put that there because at the second coming the earth and the universe is renovated by fire. We got a real problem. This is just one of the problems of pre-tribulation rapture theory, it’s just one of the problems, there are many other problems. Now, how, even, you know, there’s about eight theories on the second

▶ 0:56 coming. Okay, you know, now, how you know three of them are prominent: pre-tribulation rapture, post, I mean, pre-tribulation rapture, post-tribulation coming of Christ, no rapture but both believe in a seven-year tribulation, and then you got the millennial people. Okay, and do you know what the biggest doctrine on the second coming is? Amillennialism. Do you know what amillennialism is? No millennial. That’s the biggest accepted theory in the Christian world on the second coming, and the Catholic Church believes that there’s no millennium, and I’m going to show you some evidence. You know, the Catholic Church may have some bad things, but that doesn’t make them all

▶ 1:51 bad. I get a lot of good information off of their website, I tell you, uh, they’ve got some historical documents and stuff that’s just powerful. And Left Behind, uh, [unclear], the Catholic people, they, they beat up the Catholic Church in the movie Left Behind, implying that if you’re a Catholic you’re doomed. How many know no church can get you to heaven, you and Christ is what get you to heaven, and to go beat up any area of Christian [unclear] is really trying to use scare tactics to build your [unclear], when we just should use Jesus and his word. Amen.

What does he say about the beheaded souls in Revelation 20:4?

▶ Watch this part (2:43)

Short answer: He reads Revelation 20:4 and asks how people who would not worship the beast and were killed could be on earth at the last day. He says “this is a problem of pre-tribulation rapture” and “that’s why it’s a theory, because it doesn’t work every time.” In the same section he also argues that there is no homosexual gene and that it is “a learned habit,” which is his claim and not established by this site.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 2:43 So, uh, the thousand years is talking about this thousand-year period here between the second return, the first resurrection, and the second resurrection, okay, that is the pre-tribulation rapture theory. Verse four of Revelations 20, “I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,” beheaded for the word of God, beheaded for not worshiping the beast. Remember back there when we talked about this beast that they worshiped, everybody that wouldn’t worship was what? Killed. Now, if that was literal at the last day, then there’s no one on earth that’s serving Christ, because they would all be killed, and this is a problem of pre-tribulation

▶ 3:39 rapture. Okay, “they wouldn’t worship his image or they wouldn’t receive his mark on their foreheads or in their hands, and they lived and reigned with Christ” what? A thousand years. Now, your pre-tribulation rapture people say the saints are reigning, but the rapture says the saints are gone already. Okay, so this second, this what they call the first resurrection has to be just a resurrection of people that somehow believed in this tribulation time, and somehow they didn’t get beheaded, when if you didn’t worship the beast you’re killed, and that’s got a lot of problems. Do you see the problems? That’s why it’s a theory, because it doesn’t work every time, just like the atomic theory doesn’t work every time, the evolution theory doesn’t work every time. It’s a theory, it’s not a proven fact or proven law. Homosexuals having a homosexual gene, born that way, is ridiculous. There’s no homosexual gene, there’s no bisexual gene, there’s no DNA for that, it is a learned

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

— Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 3:00

What does he say Psalm 90:4 and numerology show about the thousand years?

▶ Watch this part (4:55)

Short answer: He reads Psalm 90:4 and says “a thousand years to God is what? One day or a four-hour period,” so “it is a period of time.” He says the only place that says reigning for a thousand years is Revelation and “we need another verse.” He then applies a day-as-a-thousand-years rule to the 1,260 days of the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3 and says numerology “just accept numbers when it’s convenient to them.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 4:55 habit. You have to acquire the habit. You weren’t born into this world to be an alcoholic, you acquired the taste to be an alcoholic by starting. Amen. So Psalm 90:4, “A thousand years in your sight is like yesterday when it is past, and like a watch in the night.” So we have a description in the Bible of a thousand years to God is what? One day or a four-hour period. In another word, it is a period of time, and God’s in eternity, and you don’t measure your eternity in what? Years. And the only place it says reigning for a thousand years is in Revelation, and how many know in two or three witnesses let everything what? Be established. We need another verse to back up that there is a literal thousand-year reign in Christ. We need another verse, and there isn’t

▶ 6:08 one. So the Catholics have got a strong point here, folks, and if you’re anti-Catholic today, I’m sorry, but, you know, they can be right. “One day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as” what? One day. Now, let’s take this principle of numerology and let’s apply it to other scriptures. Revelations 11:3, “I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Okay, a thousand years is as a day, and is a day, okay, a thousand times 1,260 days is 1,260,000 years.

▶ 7:02 Are these two witnesses going to be prophesying for 1,260 years? Are they going to be prophesying for three and a half, you know, we, numerology just accept numbers when it’s convenient to them. Do you ever notice that? And nowhere did Jesus say watch numerology. Numerology will tell you a lot, numbers in the Bible are important, nowhere does it say that we have built a whole area of Christianity and called it numerology. We have a number for one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, but when you go and you apply it to all the scriptures, you’re going to have a what? Problem. So you got to apply it where it’s convenient for you, and that makes it a theory. Say the word:

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Psalm 90:4 (NKJV)

For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.

— Psalm 90:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 5:18
Scripture (NKJV)

2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV)

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

— 2 Peter 3:8 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 6:21
Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 11:3 (NKJV)

And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

— Revelation 11:3 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 6:38

What does he say Revelation 20:5–6 means by the first resurrection?

▶ Watch this part (8:08)

Short answer: He reads Revelation 20:5–6, “Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection,” and says “the second death has no power over you, period. There’s no select group.” He says “we’re all priests to God and his Christ” and that the extreme teaching of the second coming makes us “distracted from the power that Christ gave the church now.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 8:08 theory. Okay, again, we’re going to be talking about the first resurrection. Here they call this the resurrection of the saints in the pre-tribulation rapture theory, and the saints have all been raptured here, and everybody dies here that doesn’t serve God, I don’t know how they become a saint, but anyway, and then we have the resurrection of wicked over here, that’s the theory. The rest of the dead, verse 5 of Revelations 20, “lived not again till the thousand years were finished. This is the” what? “First resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection. On such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand

▶ 9:13 years.” So these martyrs are supposed to be resurrected, and they’re supposed to reign with Christ a thousand years, and they, and they alone, is implied that the second death has no power over them. And I want to show you today that the second death has no power over you, period. There’s no select group. All of us that come to Christ, or that select group, “priests of God and of Christ.” I want to show you this morning that we’re all priests to God and his Christ. See, this is the problem, is we get the people putting off important things into the future when they can what? Possess them now. That’s the problem with the extreme teaching of the second coming, is we get distracted from the power that Christ gave the church now in every

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 20:5-6 (NKJV)

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

— Revelation 20:5-6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 8:47

What do John 5:28 and Matthew 27:52 show about the saints who rose?

▶ Watch this part (10:21)

Short answer: He reads John 5:28 and Matthew 27:52 and says the graves opened when Jesus died, and when he rose “the saints of old” rose with him and appeared in Jerusalem. He says this is “how you break the back of the Jehovah’s Witnesses,” and that this event is the first resurrection: “God left the witness of his resurrection without any doubt.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 10:21 generation. Hallelujah. John 5:28, “All that in the grave shall hear his voice and come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” How many in the graves hear his voice? All. When are they hearing it? At the same time. In that day, all in the grave. “The graves were open.” Matthew 27:52, “And many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after Jesus was resurrected, and went to the holy city and appeared unto many.” Now, this is important, this is how you break the back of the Jehovah’s

▶ 11:18 Witnesses, you see. Joseph, Deborah, King David, all those people, prominent people of old. When Jesus was on that cross and dying, the earth shook and opened the graves, and there you look down and you see that dead body. And that’s why Joseph wanted to be carried back to [unclear], so, because he knew that when Christ rose from the dead that the saints of old were going to rise with him, and he wanted to be there where it was going to take place. And so these graves are open, they put Jesus in the grave and these tombs are open, a lot of them are caves, and the stone is rolled away and the tomb is open, and that dead body has materialized in

▶ 12:23 there. Some are buried in the ground and the ground is open and you see the dead body, and then when Jesus rose from the dead, the saints of old what? Rose with him. And to make sure everybody understood, they went into Jerusalem and appeared to many people in Jerusalem. “Hey, I’m Joseph.” “Hey, I’m Deborah.” Man, this thing works, this thing is for real. “Hey, I’m King David of old, I’m the guy.” You see, God left the witness of his resurrection without any doubt. And then it is assumed that when Christ ascended, they ascended with him, because they didn’t stay appearing to people. So obviously ten days later when Christ ascended, they what? Ascended into heaven with him. That, folks, is the first resurrection. That, folks, is what gives you the power over the second death, and the second death has no power over you because of your belief, your faith, your

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

John 5:28-29 (NKJV)

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

— John 5:28-29 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 10:25
Scripture (NKJV)

Matthew 27:52-53 (NKJV)

and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

— Matthew 27:52-53 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 10:53

Why does he say Jesus himself is the first resurrection?

▶ Watch this part (13:46)

Short answer: He reads Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:20 and says “the first resurrection” took place when Jesus rose, and that “our faith in that is what gives us power over the second death.” He says it is not “just a select few martyrs” but “people that live for Christ in every generation.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 13:46 confidence in the blood of Jesus Christ and his death on the cross for you and his resurrection to give you resurrection life. Hallelujah. Now, folks, that’s good stuff. That is the first resurrection, and our faith in that resurrection and that death and burial of Christ is what keeps the second death from having any power over us. Colossians 1:18, “He is the head of the church, the body, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have preeminence,” or rulership. He is the firstborn from what? The dead. He is the first resurrection. Hallelujah. Just to make sure you get it, Revelations 1:5, “from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness and the” what? “First begotten of the dead.” When did the first resurrection take

▶ 14:43 place? When Jesus rose from the grave, and the saints in the Old Testament rose with him, and our faith in that is what gives us power over the second death. 1 Corinthians 15:20, “Now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept,” or are dead. So who is the first? Jesus Christ. And is it just a select few martyrs, you know, over there in Revelation that he’s talking about? No, he’s talking about people that live for Christ in every generation, they didn’t bow to the secular way, to the kingdom of darkness, they didn’t give in, and they, through their faith in the first resurrection, the second death has no power, and they will live eternity with Jesus Christ. Amen. And that includes

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)

And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

— Colossians 1:18 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 14:15
Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

— Revelation 1:5 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 14:34
Scripture (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (NKJV)

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

— 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 14:55

When does he say the second resurrection happens?

▶ Watch this part (15:42)

Short answer: He reads 1 Corinthians 15 on the order of resurrection, and says “we know when the second resurrection is, because we know when the first resurrection was, and two follows one.” He says the second resurrection is “at his coming,” and that the church’s job is to preach the gospel so people can “turn from that punishment of hell fire.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 15:42 you. “By man came death, by man also came the resurrection of the dead. In Adam all died, and in Christ shall all be made alive, every man in his own order.” What’s the order? Christ the firstfruits, the first resurrection, “and after, they that are Christ’s at his coming.” When is the second resurrection? Duh. When’s the second resurrection? At his coming. Say it: at his coming. We know when the second resurrection is, because we know when the first resurrection was, and two follows one. And see, people back there when Christ rose, they didn’t believe in resurrection and all that, he did it anyway. As people today don’t believe they’re going to be resurrected and be accountable for their life, it doesn’t matter, he’s going to do it anyway, and you’re going to be accountable, and it’s our job as a church to preach the gospel so that they can turn from that punishment of hell fire and the, and the lake of fire and have eternity with Christ. When is the second

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (NKJV)

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

— 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 15:43

What does he say about Christ reigning now?

▶ Watch this part (16:56)

Short answer: He reads 1 Corinthians 15:24–26 and says Jesus is “not waiting for no thousand-year period, he is king now,” and that death is the last enemy. He says “we are priests now, we are kings now, we rule with the King now,” and calls the end-time teachings a distraction from “the power of the church in your present generation.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 16:56 coming? At his coming. The second coming. “Then comes the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and authority and power, for he must reign,” he must what? He must what? He’s not waiting for no thousand-year period, he is king now. Are you there? He is the Lord of the nations now, and he reigns now, until all enemies has been put under his feet. And what is the last enemy? Death. Satan’s already been put under the feet, it’s death that’s the last enemy. We’re waiting for Jesus to put under the feet of the church and himself, and that’s at the end.

▶ 18:00 “And he must reign till he has put all enemies,” and just because we still die doesn’t mean Jesus is not ruling and reigning in the earth. Can I hear an amen? He is king now. Amen. And for these end-time people to get us thinking that there’s some period at the end of the days when Christ will literally reign, we’re missing the boat. That we reign now, and, and he, I mean, he reigns now, and we reign with him over sin and the kingdom of darkness, we rule now, and now Revelation says we are priests unto God. We’re not waiting for that period, we are priests now, we are kings now, we rule with the King now. Wow, that’s good. And this is what extreme second coming teachings distract us from, the power of the church in your present generation.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 15:24-26 (NKJV)

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

— 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 17:05

What does he say about end-time preachers and being in a local church?

▶ Watch this part (18:59)

Short answer: He says some end-time teachers get “us looking off into some stupid idea” while becoming wealthy, mentions a man who predicted the end of the world on a set date, and uses harsh words about them and their donors. He says the remedy is being in a local church where “the fruit shows,” because “you don’t know anybody off the TV set.” These are his claims and are not verified by this site.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 18:59 They get us looking off into some stupid idea, and they’re millionaires. The key is, they’re wealthy selling this message, every one of them is wealthy. That guy that just predicted the end of the world in May the 21st, he’s, he’s over $100,000, he’s worth over a hundred million dollars from blockheaded saints sending money to these idiots. How many know the Bible says, “Know them that labor among you.” And, you know, that’s why it’s important you’re in a local church, that’s when you get to know people. You don’t know anybody off the TV set, you don’t know anybody off the radio, you don’t see how they act and live in daily life. You need to be in the church where the fruit

Who does he say Gog and Magog are?

▶ Watch this part (19:56)

Short answer: He reads Revelation 20:7–9 and says the Bible “plainly tells us who Gog and Magog are, it’s the nations of the earth that are deceived.” He argues the army covers “the whole breadth” of the earth, not “some little area in Jerusalem,” and that the “beloved city” is the church.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 19:56 shows, and that’s good, preacher. Hallelujah. Verse 7, “When the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth.” All the nations. I didn’t have room here, I left out some words, as you’ll see in your Bible, but he went out to deceive all the nations in the four quarters of the earth, and then it tells us what those all nations are called. Are you ready for this? Revelation, people have been trying to tell who Gog and Magog is ever since I was a boy. Russia, and some nation in the, in the Asia or whatever. And the Bible plainly tells us who Gog and Magog is right here, plain. Do you see it? All the nations of the earth, and then he explains Gog and Magog, who are they? All the nations of the earth that he’s deceived.

▶ 21:01 Please say you get it. You don’t have to go back to numbers and names and, and, and all this. The Bible plainly tells us who Gog and Magog are, it’s the nations of the earth that are deceived. Has there been people and nations, mean Gentiles, unbelievers, has there been unbelievers in every generation? Yes. They’re part of the Gog and Magog. “The number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth.” Now, folks, the earth is a big globe, and this, this nations covers what? The whole breadth, not some little area in Jerusalem. Am I getting

▶ 21:56 through? You know, they want to tell it’s going to happen in Jerusalem, and, you know, the, the, the, oh man, and the Jews, and, and all this stuff. Listen, God doesn’t love the Jews anymore and he loves the Gentiles and Pentecostals and Baptists, we’re all the same to him. You see, all the nations of the earth, the breadth of the earth, that is talking about all the nations. So you got this army marching from the Antarctica to the Arctica, and they’re marching toward “the camp of the saints and the beloved city.” I taught you who the beloved city was two weeks ago, you remember: the new Jerusalem, the church, the bride of Christ. Now, if the saints have already been

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 20:7-9 (NKJV)

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

— Revelation 20:7-9 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 20:07

What does he say the camp of the saints and beloved city are?

▶ Watch this part (22:50)

Short answer: He says the army comes against “the church, it’s the bride, it’s the heavenly Jerusalem,” and “we are all over the earth.” He says if the saints had already been raptured, “what are they doing down here?” He adds that whether you are “a Catholic, a Protestant, or Jew or whatever,” Christ will come to anyone who comes to him.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 22:50 raptured, what are they doing down here? See, that’s another big problem. And it’s not Jerusalem they’re coming against, it’s the church, it’s the bride, it’s the heavenly Jerusalem that they’re coming against, and we are all over the earth. Wow, that was good. And the saints are still here, those that haven’t been resurrected yet are still here. Why? Because Christ’s death on the cross is powerful and his promises are powerful, and he will fulfill them to anyone who listens, believes it, receives it, and acts upon it. I don’t care if you’re a Catholic, a Protestant, or Jew or whatever, he will come to you when you come to him, and he’ll make you a victorious overcomer in this earth. Amen.

How does he explain the fire from heaven in Revelation 20:9?

▶ Watch this part (24:03)

Short answer: He says the fire is not tanks or bombs: “God speaks a word and zip.” He cites Ezekiel 39:6, where fire falls on Magog and on those who live carelessly in the isles, and 2 Thessalonians 1:7–9 about “a flaming fire taking vengeance.” He says God “deals with fire at this second coming.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 24:03 Hallelujah, and listen to this. You know, they talk about the blood at the bridle, you know, and all the carcasses, and all this. “Fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.” Ain’t no sword, no tanks, no atomic bombs. God speaks a word and zip, they ain’t circling the camp of the saints anymore, they’re gone. And this is backed up by scripture. What’s this? Oh, Ezekiel 39:6, “I will send fire on Magog,” this is where they get Russia and all that from, “and among those who dwell carelessly in the isles.” So what’s the problem with Magog? They’re dwelling carelessly, just like the people in the islands were dwelling carelessly. You say Magog is also the careless people in the islands. Maybe that, an island sometimes is not a nation, it’s just a bunch of people living on an

▶ 25:07 island, “and they shall know that I am the Lord.” Now, when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, 2 Thessalonians 1:7, “with his mighty angels.” Hallelujah. “And a flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God.” Does that back up Revelations 20? God, what? Fire from heaven devoured them. “Taking vengeance with a flaming fire on them that know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the” what? “Presence of the Lord.” And so we see, yes, God deals with fire at this second coming. 2 Peter 3:10, “The day of the Lord will come as a” what? “Thief in the

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Ezekiel 39:6 (NKJV)

“And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the LORD.

— Ezekiel 39:6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 24:42
Scripture (NKJV)

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 (NKJV)

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

— 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 25:17

What does he say 2 Peter 3:10 teaches about the second coming?

▶ Watch this part (26:05)

Short answer: He reads 2 Peter 3:10, that the day of the Lord will come as a “thief in the night,” and says “that’s the only second coming Jesus talked about in Matthew 24.” He says “there’s no rapture and then a second coming. There is a second coming,” and ties the heavens passing away to the sixth seal.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 26:05 night.” And that’s the only second coming Jesus talked about in Matthew 24, he will happen as a thief in the night. That’s the second coming, there’s no rapture and then a second coming. There is a second coming, there’s no third coming or fourth coming, there is a second coming, and the thief in the night is explaining exactly what Jesus talked about in Matthew 24 and in Luke and in Mark. Can I hear an amen? “The heavens shall pass away with a great noise” when he comes. The heavens are what? Going to pass away with a great noise. And that’s what we heard in the seals, the heavens passing away, the sixth seal. “And the elements will melt with fervent heat, the earth and the works therein shall be” what? “Burned up,” and all what?

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

2 Peter 3:10-12 (NKJV)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

— 2 Peter 3:10-12 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 25:58

What does he say happens to the saints when the earth is dissolved?

▶ Watch this part (27:05)

Short answer: He says the wicked will be raised to burn in that fire, and the saints are safe: “the fire has no power over the saints,” as with “three Hebrew children” in Daniel. He warns that if you love your house and possessions and “turn back,” like Lot’s wife, “you’re going to burn.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 27:05 Dissolved. So when he comes, yes, they’re going to be attacking us in that end day, just like they are now, they’re going to be belittling us and mocking us and mistreating us, but in that day when he comes, he’s going to bring fire, and the dead that are wicked are going to be raised to burn in that fire. These barns and all these buildings and all these cars are going to be switched, gone, just like that. Why? By the word of his mouth. He speaks it and fire comes, and this earth and the trees and the ocean and everything is gone. Are you there? You say, “Well, what about the saints that are down here?” Listen, didn’t you ever read the story in Daniel, that three Hebrew children went into the, the fire and not even a smell of smoke was on them? See, it depends on which side of Jesus you’re on. The fire has no power over the saints, it’s only the unbeliever and the wicked, they burn and they are moved, they are dissolved, they are destroyed. And if you’re Lot’s wife, that you love your house and your family and all your do-goodies in your house, and you [unclear] Silver Shadow in your car, and you turn back, you’re going to burn

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Daniel 3:27 (NKJV)

And the satraps, administrators, governors, and the king’s counselors gathered together, and they saw these men on whose bodies the fire had no power; the hair of their head was not singed nor were their garments affected, and the smell of fire was not on them.

— Daniel 3:27 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 27:56

How does he sum up the thousand years and how we should live now?

▶ Watch this part (28:28)

Short answer: He sums up that the thousand years is “some kind of time period,” that Satan is limited by Christ “every generation,” and “the time period when we rule with Christ on earth is now.” He says he submits “that the Catholics are right” on this point, and closes by asking “what kind of people should you be” in godliness, “because, folks, you can die any day.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 28:28 because all that’s going to be burned up, and if that’s what you’re going to hold on to, you’re going to burn with it. Okay, bottomless pit, place of torment, prison, and a source of the kingdom of darkness is evil, and Satan is his king. We got it. Satan is bound and loosed till the end, all, every generation, he is limited what he can do by Jesus Christ himself in his power, and it will happen at the end also, and the saints shall rule over him. When? Now. Saints are priests unto God. When? Now. And we rule over Satan in his kingdom now. A thousand years is a time period of a day, a watch, or a year, in other words it’s some kind of time period, and it can be in our time period, and it is in our time period. I submit to you that the Catholics are right:

▶ 29:28 the time period when we rule with Christ on earth is now. Hallelujah. Because there’s a new heaven and earth coming, and there’s no sickness, no disease, no wicked people there, no, no deception there. And so we need to rule when, when we have something, we got to rule over wickedness, sin. Amen. The first, first resurrection is Jesus Christ and the saints of old, the second death has no power over believers and those baptized in Jesus. And I didn’t read that part, but it says if this is true, that everything’s going to be dissolved, what kind of people should you be, in godliness and holiness and good conversation? What kind of people should you be? That’s what the Bible says. If all this is going to happen, then what kind of people should you be

▶ 30:36 now? And paying attention to how you talk and how you live, because God is coming to punish those who reject him and don’t obey the word, and so we should be what? Not looking for something special up there at the end, we should what? Now be focusing on living for God and speaking rightly, because, folks, you can die any day, and you’re going to stand before Christ. You may never make the end-time generation, but when you die, you’re judged, and that’s what people should be concerned about: when is my time to die? And if I lived in, in that generation and everything is burned up, then I should be ready, with holiness and proper talk and a proper lifestyle.

More questions this message answers

Short answers drawn only from what he says in this message, each with the moment in the video.

What does he say amillennialism is?

He says it means “no millennial,” and calls it “the biggest accepted theory in the Christian world on the second coming.”

▶ Watch at 0:56

Does he say a church can get you to heaven?

No. He says “no church can get you to heaven, you and Christ is what get you to heaven.”

▶ Watch at 1:51

What problem does he see with the rapture theory and the beheaded saints?

He says if people who would not worship the beast were killed at the last day, “there’s no one on earth that’s serving Christ,” and “this is a problem of pre-tribulation rapture.”

▶ Watch at 2:43

Scripture (NKJV)

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

— Revelation 20:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 3:00

Does he say there is a second verse for a literal thousand-year reign?

No. He says “we need another verse to back up that there is a literal thousand-year reign in Christ… and there isn’t one.”

▶ Watch at 4:55

What is his point about numerology?

He says “numerology just accept numbers when it’s convenient to them,” and that applying one rule to every scripture gives “a problem.”

▶ Watch at 7:02

Scripture (NKJV)

And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”

— Revelation 11:3 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 6:38

Does he say the second death has power over believers?

No. He says “the second death has no power over you, period.”

▶ Watch at 9:13

Scripture (NKJV)

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

— Revelation 20:5-6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 8:47

Who does he say rose when Jesus rose?

He says “the saints of old” rose with him, “went into Jerusalem and appeared to many people,” and then ascended with him.

▶ Watch at 12:23

Scripture (NKJV)

and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

— Matthew 27:52-53 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 10:53

What does he say the first resurrection is?

He says it was “when Jesus rose from the grave, and the saints in the Old Testament rose with him,” and that faith in it “is what gives us power over the second death.”

▶ Watch at 14:43

Scripture (NKJV)

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

— 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 14:55

Is Jesus ruling now, according to him?

Yes. He says “he is king now” and “he reigns now until all enemies has been put under his feet.”

▶ Watch at 16:56

Scripture (NKJV)

Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

— 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 17:05

In short, who does he say Gog and Magog are?

He says “it’s the nations of the earth that are deceived,” meaning “Gentiles, unbelievers.”

▶ Watch at 21:01

Scripture (NKJV)

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

— Revelation 20:7-9 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 20:07

Does he say there is a rapture before the second coming?

No. He says “there’s no rapture and then a second coming. There is a second coming.”

▶ Watch at 26:05

Scripture (NKJV)

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

— 2 Peter 3:10-12 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 25:58

What does he say we should focus on instead of the end time?

He says “not looking for something special up there at the end,” but “now be focusing on living for God and speaking rightly.”

▶ Watch at 30:36

About this transcript

This transcript comes from YouTube’s automatic English captions, which supply the timing and the words. Punctuation, capitalization and paragraphing were added by hand, and obvious caption errors were corrected; his wording was not rewritten. “[unclear]” marks a word or name that was not clear. Editor notes: the captions give “Revelations” for the book of Revelation; this is kept as spoken. Captions render Gog and Magog as “may God” and similar; they are shown as Gog and Magog. He reads Scripture in King James-style wording at points where the NKJV differs. He makes claims about other groups (the Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuality, and unnamed end-time preachers and their wealth); these are his words and not verified by this site. At about 22:00 the captions read “God doesn’t love the Jews anymore and he loves the Gentiles…”; the sentence is kept as captioned and should be checked against the audio. “[Unclear]” marks five spots: three at about 1:50, one at about 11:30 and one at about 27:40. Select any time to jump to that moment on YouTube.

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