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Single message · Full sermon · Pastor David G. Kincer, Vine Cluster Church · Uploaded June 18, 2014 · 49:12

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From the sermonFathers Know · Pastor David G. Kincer▶ 0:00

In this message Pastor David G. Kincer continues his series on the stages of Christian growth with the father stage of 1 John 2:13-14: fathers know Him who was from the beginning. He lays out John 1 and Genesis 1 as proof that Jesus is God, then compares the characteristics of a natural father and a spiritual father: not provoking children, training and cherishing them, birthing others through the Word, being an example, and disciplining as God does in Hebrews 12. He closes with the meat of the Word, righteousness, and what it means to practice it.

Who are the “fathers” in 1 John 2:13-14, and what does it mean that they know Him from the beginning?

▶ Watch this part (0:00)

Short answer: He says the Bible repeats itself in 1 John 2:13-14 because “when the Bible repeats itself, it means it’s important.” He says fathers “not only understand with the mind, but they have a personal relationship and they keep His commandments,” and that they understand Jesus “existed at the beginning” and “was God from the very beginning of the world.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 0:00 In 1 John 2:13 and 14 he says the same thing. He repeats himself, and when the Bible repeats itself, it means it’s important. “I write unto you, fathers, because you have known Him from the beginning.” Now we know from past sessions that the word “know” means to understand, okay, to be aware of, to recognize something. We recognize God, we get knowledge of God, but we also know from the Bible that knowing God is an intimate relationship. It’s used as an intimate, personal relationship. And we also know that by this do you know Him: if you keep His commandments. So the fathers know Him. They not only understand with the mind, but they have a personal relationship and they keep His commandments. That is from the beginning.

▶ 1:08 Now here Paul, John is saying that Jesus was at the beginning. Okay, He wasn’t just, when He came, was born of a virgin, but He existed at the beginning, and fathers understand that. They have a personal encounter with that, and they obey that Jesus that was at the beginning. So fathers know Jesus was God. See, the father stage clearly understands that Jesus was God from the very beginning of the world. All right, John chapter 1, verse 1 through 14. We find in John 1:1 through 14 that “in the beginning was the Word.” Now John is going to lay this out very clearly: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God.”

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

1 John 2:13-14 (NKJV)

I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father. I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.

— 1 John 2:13-14 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 0:00

What does John 1:1-14 teach about Jesus as the Word, Creator and Light?

▶ Watch this part (2:15)

Short answer: He says John 1 shows “the Word was with God” and “the Word was God,” that “Jesus created the world,” and “if the Word is Jesus Christ, then Jesus is the Word, Jesus is God.” He offers a “spiritual brain teaser” about light on the first day before the sun, pointing to verses where God and Jesus are light: “Jesus was at the beginning with God, and Jesus was what? Light.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 2:15 You see, at the beginning of time in Genesis, the Word was with God, but also “the Word was God.” Now this is very important. Now this chapter threw me for quite a few years till I grew in the Word, but it’s very clear. “The same was in the beginning with God.” So God was with God. You got it? The same, the Word was with God, the Word was God, the same, the Word, the God was in the beginning with God. So God was with who? God. He said, well, you have to be a father to understand that. See, you got to get past the little baby doctrines and get into the richness of the Bible.

▶ 3:19 All right, now let’s keep going. “All things were made by Him,” the Word, God, “and without Him was not anything made.” He goes on to say the world was made by Him. So John here emphasizes that Jesus created the world, created everything, and without Him nothing was made that was made, and the Word was God. Number five: “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.” In Him was life, and that life was the light of men. Now I’m going to throw a few teasers at you, for those of you who are Bible students. The atheists, the humanists, the liberals, our opponents, all say that the Bible contradicts itself, and one of the places they say that it contradicts itself is God said, “Let there be light” on the first day, and there was light, but the sun and the moon was not created till the fourth day. So let me just throw out a little spiritual brain teaser to you. In Jesus was life, and that life was the light of men.

▶ 4:51 Matthew 17:2: Jesus was transfigured before them, and “His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment white as the light.” 1 Timothy 6:16: the Lord Jesus Christ “dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto.” 1 John 1:5: “God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.” Psalm 104:2: God “covers Himself with light as with a garment, and stretches out the heavens like a curtain.” Revelation 21:23: the city, the heavenly Jerusalem, the bride, “has no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it, for the glory of God lights it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.” Paul, on the road to Damascus, when he encountered Jesus, he encountered a great light. So when God said, “Let there be light,” and the sun was not created till the day before, we have a scriptural reference for light, because Jesus was at the beginning with God, and Jesus was what? Light. Just something for you to think on. See, human intellect cannot understand these things.

▶ 6:26 All right, now we’ll get back to the kindergarten stage and continue. “The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us, and we beheld His glory, as of the only begotten Son of God, full of grace and truth.” And John the Baptist bore witness of Him. So clearly it is talking about the Word, who is Jesus Christ. So if the Word is Jesus Christ, then Jesus is the Word, Jesus is God, and fathers understand that. They’re not confused at all. Hallelujah. Now, Jesus from the beginning: is it true that back in Genesis I can find Jesus? All right, in Genesis chapter 1 you’re going to find the God four involved in creation. How many? Four. What are you used to? Three. But see, John very clearly brings out that the Word is also God. Have I got your minds thinking?

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

John 1:1-14 (NKJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

— John 1:1-14 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 3:22
Scripture (NKJV)

Matthew 17:2 (NKJV)

and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light.

— Matthew 17:2 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 4:51
Scripture (NKJV)

1 Timothy 6:16 (NKJV)

who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

— 1 Timothy 6:16 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 5:03
Scripture (NKJV)

1 John 1:5 (NKJV)

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

— 1 John 1:5 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 5:12
Scripture (NKJV)

Psalm 104:2 (NKJV)

Who cover Yourself with light as with a garment, Who stretch out the heavens like a curtain.

— Psalm 104:2 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 5:17
Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 21:23 (NKJV)

The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.

— Revelation 21:23 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 5:27

Do we find God, the Spirit and the Word in Genesis 1, and was Jesus always God’s plan?

▶ Watch this part (8:07)

Short answer: He says Genesis 1 shows God, “the Spirit of God,” and the Word (“God said”) involved in creation, and that God spoke “let us” in the plural. He says God “never had a plan B”: “He had one plan the whole time, and that was Jesus Christ, reconciling people back to God,” and describes “one God doing things with four different explanations.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 8:07 Now, is it true? And you know me, I always go back to see if what God says is true back there. So let’s go to Genesis chapter 1, and we find the first thing involved is God. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” We got it colored in blue so that you know everything is related to Him. Verse 2, we have the Spirit, the second part, the second one involved in the creation: “The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” Okay, and see, God continues His truth all throughout the Bible, and so it’s important that we understand it was set at the beginning. All right, so we have God and the Spirit, and then we have the Word. Verse 3: “God said.” God spoke, and this is the power of God. It’s in His spoken Word. God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

▶ 9:18 See, when God said, Jesus said, who is God, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes on Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.” Just like when He said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. When God speaks something, He backs it up, and if you believe, you will not perish. See, just like He said, “I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.” We know what His spoken word is. He accomplishes it, and you can have the infilling, the baptism of the Holy Spirit, because God backs up His spoken Word.

▶ 10:03 Hallelujah. Now we know it is the printed Word, but it was only printed because He what? Spoke it. Yes, it’s that spoken Word, and you can have confidence that that Word is God. See, that Bible is Jesus. You can’t separate Jesus in the Bible. And then we have Jesus down there in verse 26: “Let us,” plural, “make man in our image,” plural, “and our likeness,” plural. He didn’t say, “Let me make man in My image.” He said, “Let us.” Why? Because that four-part, of identities and creating the world, is all God.

▶ 11:07 And Jesus. The Bible says in Revelation He was the beginning of the creation of God. The Bible says that He died before the foundation of the world, His blood was shed before the foundation of the world. Well, it wasn’t shed before the foundation of the world, it was shed when it was shed, 4,000 years later, but God spoke it’s going to be, and when He spoke it’s going to be, it’s as good as done. Amen. So Jesus is the beginning. His plan. Somebody, people say, “Well, you know, Adam and Eve sinned so God had to have a plan B.” Uh-uh.

▶ 11:47 He never had a plan B. He had one plan the whole time, and that was Jesus Christ, reconciling people back to God, back to what is right, and filling heaven with people that would repent and turn. That was His plan. All right, so that is Jesus. Remember, without Him not anything was made. Remember, the world was made by Him. All things were made by Him, John said. And so we have Jesus back there, part of the four-person God here, one God doing things with four different explanations: God, the Holy Ghost, the Word, and Jesus. Hallelujah.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Genesis 1:1-3 (NKJV)

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

— Genesis 1:1-3 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 8:21
Scripture (NKJV)

John 3:16 (NKJV)

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

— John 3:16 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 9:23 (quoted; reference not named in the message)
Scripture (NKJV)

Joel 2:28 (NKJV)

“And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions.

— Joel 2:28 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 9:45 (quoted; reference not named in the message)
Scripture (NKJV)

Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

— Genesis 1:26 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 10:31
Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 3:14 (NKJV)

“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:

— Revelation 3:14 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:12 (quoted; reference not named in the message)
Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 13:8 (NKJV)

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

— Revelation 13:8 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:15 (quoted; reference not named in the message)

What do spiritual fathers do that “baby food” churchgoers don’t?

▶ Watch this part (12:38)

Short answer: He says fathers “grow up” and aren’t in a church “where they’re just getting baby food all the time”; they are “in the Word, they’re digging,” and “study to show themselves approved.” He asks how many could say, “I study the Book, I’m learning the Book, I’m becoming a father,” and says “most of us don’t even read it.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 12:38 Now see, fathers understand that they grow up, and they understand they’re not in some church where they’re just getting baby food all the time. They’re in the Word, they’re digging, they have their concordance, they have their Bible out, they have their reason. They “study to show themselves approved, rightly dividing the word” to God. They what? Study. They just don’t read the Bible through in a year, they study that Bible. And I would say, raise your hand, how many fathers we got here this morning, but we don’t want to do that. But think, if Jesus came and said, “How many fathers we got here?” how many could really raise their hand and say, “I study the Book, I’m learning the Book, I’m becoming a father”? See, we don’t study. Most of us don’t even read it. We’re waiting for some megachurch pastor to write another book to inspire us.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

— 2 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 12:53 (quoted; reference not named in the message)

What does it mean for a father not to provoke his children to anger? (Ephesians 6:4)

▶ Watch this part (13:45)

Short answer: He says a real father “doesn’t irritate and drive his children crazy” to the point of resentment and hatred, which can happen “by being a bad example, by not knowing how to raise kids, by not putting kids first.” He says children lose motivation “because there’s a lack of fatherhood in the home,” and that “fathers are there to motivate you.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 13:45 Now, characteristics of a father. The Bible says first the natural, then the spiritual. You say, Jesus said, “If I spoke to you of heavenly things, you wouldn’t understand them, so I speak to you in natural things about heavenly things so you understand them.” Isn’t that smart of Him? Yeah. I can connect with things that I can relate to. So here’s the characteristics of a real father, an earthly father, a genuine father, and so you men wake up. All right, Ephesians, first characteristic. Ephesians 6:4: “Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger.” A real father doesn’t irritate and drive his children crazy, all right, to where they get resentment in their heart and hatred in their heart. They hate life, they hate their parents, they hate their dad, they hate, and they resent. All right, and fathers can do that by being a bad example, by not knowing how to raise kids, by not putting kids first. See, but a good father will not drive his kid crazy, neither will a good mother.

▶ 15:18 “Lest they be discouraged,” or so that they be discouraged, or they lack motivation. They lack motivation in spiritual things, they lack motivation in natural things. They’re only motivated to play Nintendo games, or the Xbox, the latest Xbox stuff. That’s the only motivation they got in this generation, or to put earphones on and listen to their music. And now that’s our young people’s motivation today because there’s a lack of fatherhood in the home. Yeah, they become discouraged, they lack motivation. And you kids better listen to this, because fathers are there to motivate you. Fathers are there to make you into an adult later that can sustain themselves.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Ephesians 6:4 (NKJV)

And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.

— Ephesians 6:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 14:27

What does it mean to “train up” and “cherish” your children?

▶ Watch this part (16:19)

Short answer: He says the quality of a real father is “how he handles his kids,” that “trains” means “cherish,” putting a value on children as a husband values his wife, and that “training” is “instruction with discipline.” He says the goal is to “raise them up to maturity” so they can provide for themselves, and he tells young women to get a job skill.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 16:19 He goes on to say, number two, the characteristic of a father. Characteristic is defining features, the qualities, the defining feature of a real father, the quality of a real father is how he handles his kids. Now that child can reject it. Don’t blame the father when the child rejects what a father is trying to train him up to be. So the second characteristic, a real father “trains up.” That word “trains” has a meaning, it’s “cherish.” You put a value on your children. It’s like the husband nurtures the wife, he puts a value on the wife. She’s a priceless possession.

▶ 17:08 She’s more important than the gun you like and the car you drive. And if you polish it and you clean and take care of that gun, then you will more take care of that wife. If you cherish children, you will more than love your gun and love your car and love hunting, or whatever it is you like, you will love that child more. You’ll put a value on that child to grow them up to maturity, and that’s what the other part of this word means: to raise them up to maturity, because one day they got to supply their own need, they got to live on their own.

▶ 18:04 Okay, “train them up.” In the training, now this word “training” is instruction with discipline. You see, instruction with discipline. Women have a tendency to want their kids to be nice and mannerly and say thank you and open the door and all this stuff, but a man is very concerned about that child growing up to provide for themselves. Work habits, getting out of bed, going to bed on time, getting up on time. A father is very concerned about that, because one day that child has got to go on their own, or that father could die early, and then that child has to know how to provide for themselves, how to live in this world.

▶ 19:02 You got it. That’s what I tell young ladies. I said, “Young ladies, in this day and hour you have over a 50% chance of your husband leaving you, so you better get a job skill. You better follow the Bible principles and prepare yourself in the field in a job skill, so when, if that guy leaves you,” or husbands, that wife can leave you and leave you with the kids, “you got to have a job skill to prepare to do things on your own.” And see, a father understands that. He doesn’t live in a fantasy world, he lives in a practical world. Hallelujah.

How does a father discipline, and what is “Bible morality”?

▶ Watch this part (19:48)

Short answer: He says a father “isn’t interested in yelling and screaming” or “slugging him in the face with the fist,” and that when God uses discipline “He mainly uses His Word, and then He lets sin correct you on its own.” He calls it “Bible morality,” which is “not popular” but has “indisputable results”: follow it and have success, deviate and “you’re going to pay a price.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 19:48 Men, yeah, men have a big responsibility. In the Bible, let me tell you, God gives men a tremendous responsibility. You know, I’m kind of jealous for the women. “Train them up, discipline them.” So a father is interested in discipline. He isn’t interested in yelling and screaming at him and slugging him in the face with the fist. No. The Bible, when God uses discipline, He mainly uses His Word, and then He lets sin correct you on its own. Your sin will correct you. So your sicknesses, your venereal diseases, you know, all these, your backlashes that come from you choosing wrong, that’s you getting punished because of your choice.

▶ 20:42 But He comes with the Word to correct you. We got to listen. Amen. So that adds up to Bible morality, the thing that I’ve been pushing for a couple of years. See, it’s not popular, Bible morality, but it has indisputable results. You follow Bible morality, young people, you’re going to have good success in your life. You deviate, you’re going to pay a price, and it’s there to correct you and get you back. See, the father disciplines, see, to get you back on the right road.

Why are there so few spiritual fathers in the church, and how do they “birth” others? (1 Corinthians 4:15; 11:1)

▶ Watch this part (21:25)

Short answer: He reads that “you have 10,000 instructors in Christ” but “you don’t have many fathers,” because few want to “put in the effort and the time” to go through the stages. He says a spiritual father “takes the Bible, takes the Scriptures, and instructs young believers so that they are birthed by that Word,” and that “most ministers are just teaching baby doctrines all the time.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 21:25 Now that’s the natural father. Let’s look at the spiritual father. 1 Corinthians 4:15: “For though you have 10,000 instructors in Christ.” Okay, everybody’s going around talking about Jesus, and “I love Jesus, Jesus is my Lord and Savior.” You got 10,000, you got multitudes of people talking about Jesus being born of a virgin and dying on the cross and so forth. Okay, isn’t that right today? Everybody and their uncle thinks they’re skillful in Bible because they believe in Jesus and know that story. But he says, “You don’t have many fathers.” You don’t have many fathers, and we know why. You got to get through the embryo stage, the newborn stage, the child stage, the young adult stage, to the father stage, and not many Christians want to put in the effort and the time to be a father. Hallelujah.

▶ 22:42 To be a real natural father, you got to put time in. You got to come home from work and not want to unwind. You got to spend time with your kids. That’s what a real father does. It takes time to be a spiritual father. You got to put time into the Bible, you got to put time into church, being involved in church, not just going and warming a seat or getting inspired or watching a drama or listening to a concert. You got to put time in to learn. Could that be an amen? Number three, characteristic of a father: “For in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.” You see, he said the third characteristic of a father is they birth.

▶ 23:39 See, a natural father gives birth through the mother to the child. Now we know that we are born again by the Spirit, John chapter 3, right? But we also know that we’re born again by the Word. Remember past sessions that we are born again by the Word. 1 Peter 1:22: “See that you love one another with a pure heart, being born again, not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible, by the Word of God.” And so Paul is saying a spiritual father takes the Bible, takes the Scriptures, and instructs young believers so that they are birthed by that Word, from the embryo stage, from the newborn stage, to the children stage, to the young adult stage, to the father stage. Now, man, that was good.

▶ 24:42 See, and how many of you can agree, there’s not many fathers in the church world? Oh, it’s true. Most ministers are just teaching baby doctrines all the time. A lot of ministers are teaching embryo stuff. The people are just staying in the embryo stage. They haven’t really made a decision to follow Christ. They just believe in Christ, they haven’t made a decision to follow Him. They haven’t been born again. And it’s the minister’s fault, and it’s their fault too, for going to a church or listening to the radio where all you hear is embryo preaching. Could that be an amen? It is an amen. “For this reason I asked you to be followers of me.” Imitate me, Paul said. And in 1 Corinthians, number four characteristic, 1 Corinthians 11:1: “Follow me, imitate me, as I imitate Christ.” So see, a father can genuinely say, “Imitate me,” because I am imitating Jesus Christ. I’m not imitating some megachurch pastor, some great author. I am impersonating and imitating, taking on the example of Jesus Christ. Hallelujah.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 4:15 (NKJV)

For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

— 1 Corinthians 4:15 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 21:32
Scripture (NKJV)

1 Peter 1:22-23 (NKJV)

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

— 1 Peter 1:22-23 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 24:02
Scripture (NKJV)

1 Corinthians 11:1 (NKJV)

Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

— 1 Corinthians 11:1 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 25:32

Why does Paul say “imitate me,” and why must fathers be examples? (Philippians 3:17)

▶ Watch this part (26:08)

Short answer: He says a father can genuinely say “imitate me” because “I am imitating Jesus Christ,” not “some megachurch pastor, some great author.” He says natural fathers must control their own temper and language, that mothers are “not excused” because “in the spiritual world this example is for male and female,” and that we need to follow the apostles’ doctrine and example.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 26:08 And fathers in the natural, we got to be examples. You know, if you don’t want your kids to have a temper and be angry, then you got to control your temper. If you don’t want your kids using profanity and shooting their mouth off, then you stop using profanity and shooting your mouth off. If you don’t want your kids to be violent, then stop beating up on people. You got to be an example. Is that an amen? If you want your kids’ attention drawn to Christ, you need to serve Christ, not just send them off to church and you stay at home and watch football. Got to be an example, an imitator. All right, an imitator. Number five, Philippians 3:17: “Brethren, join in following my example.” You see, Peter or Paul could say this because he did it and everybody knew. “Follow my example.” Fathers, can you tell your kids to follow your example in every area of life? Something to think about, isn’t it?

▶ 27:40 And mothers, you are not excused here. In the spiritual world this example is for male and female. You have no excuse because, well, I’m a mother. When it comes to spirituality, you got to be a father, you got to be an example. “And note those who walk as you have us for a pattern.” You see, “us” is now plural, so he’s talking about the other 11 apostles. Actually, there were 15 apostles when you count Barnabas and Silas and some others, and so they had this pattern that people could follow.

▶ 28:24 And I keep telling you, we need to follow the apostles’ doctrine, we need to follow the apostles’ example. Not any modern author has the authority that they had. Can I hear an amen? See, the Bible says they continued in the apostles’ doctrine. You see, the church still needs to continue in the apostles’ doctrine, it still needs to look to the apostles and Jesus Christ for examples and line up to that. “For many walk as the enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction.” See, their behavior. Yes, they believe in Jesus, but their behavior is destructive.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Philippians 3:17 (NKJV)

Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern.

— Philippians 3:17 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 27:10
Scripture (NKJV)

Acts 2:42 (NKJV)

And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

— Acts 2:42 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 28:40 (quoted; reference not named in the message)
Scripture (NKJV)

Philippians 3:18-19 (NKJV)

For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

— Philippians 3:18-19 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 28:53 (quoted; reference not named in the message)

Why does he say men should lead by example in the church? (2 Thessalonians 3:9-10)

▶ Watch this part (29:07)

Short answer: He reads “we make ourselves an example,” and says “most women have to drag their husband to church” and that men “should be the example, leading the way.” He reads “if anyone will not work, neither should he eat,” says “real Christians work,” and says “you cannot neglect the Bible and say you’re in love with Jesus, because Jesus is the Bible.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 29:07 2 Thessalonians 3:9: “We make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.” Now, how many men in the church have set out in the American church to be an example to those who come into that church? Most women have to drag their husband to church, honestly. All throughout the world, women are way on the front lines of following Christ, and I know it by the attendance in most churches. Women are 60% of the congregation and men are 30 at the best. It’s 60/40, I mean 70/30 and 60/40. And it shouldn’t be that.

▶ 29:57 Men should be the example, leading the way. Shame on us. And then he gives this example. See, he gives this example: “We commanded you this: if anyone will not work, neither should he eat.” Some among you behave in a disorderly, irresponsible manner. Some of you in the church are very irresponsible, not working at all, but are busybodies. You’re idle, you’re meddlers, you got nothing to do all day. And I’ve told you many times, real Christians work. They don’t just believe in Jesus, they work. Can I hear an amen?

▶ 30:57 And that same work applies to the spiritual. Like I said, you got to get into that Bible and study it. You got to get into Bible studies to learn and go back home and pray over that Bible study and get it in you and get it birthed in you. If you want to be a father and you want to be an example, you got to be a student of the Bible, the Word. And Jesus is the Word. You cannot neglect the Bible and say you’re in love with Jesus, because Jesus is the Bible. Wow, that was good. Do you feel that one? Yeah, praise God, America needs to hear this message.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

2 Thessalonians 3:9-10 (NKJV)

not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

— 2 Thessalonians 3:9-10 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 29:07

Does God discipline and punish those He loves? (Hebrews 12:5-6)

▶ Watch this part (31:56)

Short answer: He reads Hebrews 12:5-6 and says “the Lord here is the Father, we are the son,” and “for whom the Lord loves He disciplines and punishes every son He receives.” He says “spankings are Bible,” as is sitting in a chair until you learn to behave, and that “because He loves you, He will correct you,” adding that “a lousy father will turn it all over to the mother.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 31:56 Characteristics of a father. Hebrews 12:5: “My son,” every son has a father, “despise not the discipline and training of the Lord.” The Lord here is the Father, we are the son. Okay. “And do not faint and get weary when corrected of Him.” You see, going back to that discipline of a father: “for whom the Lord loves He disciplines and punishes every son He receives.” Spankings are Bible. Sitting in a chair until you learn to behave is Bible, some kind of act of correction so that that child corrects his behavior. Is what fathers do.

▶ 32:54 “For whom the Lord loves He disciplines and punishes every son He receives.” You know, “as many as received Him,” John 1:12, “to them gave He power to become sons of God.” You see, we receive Him, we accept Him in our life. If we accept Him and He accepts us, then He’s going to punish us, He’s going to discipline us, He’s going to correct us. You got that, church? He’s not going to leave you. Birth you and just leave you? He’s going to instruct you, discipline you, correct you, and punish you. Oh man, God doesn’t, but God is love. Because He is love, see, because He loves you, He will correct you.

▶ 33:45 Let’s go on with this verse: “If you endure chastening,” correction, “God deals with you as sons, for what son is he whom the father chastens not?” See, a real father will correct his children. A lousy father will turn it all over to the mother. I had men come to me, “Well, I can’t discipline my kid because I get extreme and I just beat the tar out of them.” Well, correct yourself. “Well, I can’t correct my kid because I just can’t see them in pain.” Well, buck up, you need to change. These poor women, they have more load put on them when us men don’t do our job. And women, when we do do our job, butt out. That’s the other problem. We try to raise up kids that are responsible, “Oh, you’re too harsh, oh you,” oh, cut it out, let me be a father.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 12:5-6 (NKJV)

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.”

— Hebrews 12:5-6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 31:57
Scripture (NKJV)

John 1:12 (NKJV)

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

— John 1:12 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 33:03

What does Hebrews 12:7-8 mean by “illegitimate” sons?

▶ Watch this part (34:58)

Short answer: He reads “if you be without correction… then you are illegitimate and not sons,” and says if you aren’t letting God instruct and correct you “then you haven’t been born again by the Spirit.” He says there are “illegitimate Christians” in America who “won’t let God correct them through the Word” yet claim the inheritance of eternal life, and tells young people to respect their parents.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 34:58 Now listen to this: “If you be without correction,” punishment, discipline, “whereof all are partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.” Of God. You see, if you aren’t letting God instruct you and correct you, then you haven’t been born again by the Spirit. You’re illegitimate, and you’re not heirs of anything when you’re illegitimate. Are you all out there? That is a very powerful statement. And how many illegitimate Christians do we have in America? A bunch. Why? Because they won’t let God correct them through the Word. They reject even the thought of God correcting them.

▶ 35:58 And then they want to claim the inheritance of eternal life and the inheritance of joy and wisdom, and you haven’t got an inheritance if you’re illegitimate. You need to get born again. “Fathers of our flesh corrected us,” if we’re the real father we will, “and we gave them reverence and respect.” And young people, you need to respect your parents. A good set of parents will be out to make you the best you can be, that when you get older you can provide for yourself, you can serve God on your own. Good parents know that one day you got to leave the nest and build your own nest and survive in this world after they’re dead and gone.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 12:7-8 (NKJV)

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

— Hebrews 12:7-8 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 35:00

How is a real father’s discipline different from discipline for convenience? (Hebrews 12:9-11)

▶ Watch this part (36:46)

Short answer: He says good parents prepare children so they can “provide for yourself” and “build your own nest,” while “a lousy parent will enable you.” He contrasts fathers who correct “for their own convenience” with a real father who “corrects to train them up in the way they should go” and “turns the TV off” to give a child attention, and says God “corrects us for our good” so that we yield “the peaceable fruit of righteousness.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 36:46 A lousy parent will enable you with giving you everything you want and not requiring you to learn a job skill. You teenagers listening to this, you’re at the age where you got to learn a job skill, you got to get educated, and you got to learn a job skill so when you become 20 years old you can provide for yourself, or in that zone somewhere. Twenty isn’t the magical word, that’s the goal. When the Bible says you are a full-grown adult, that’s the age.

▶ 37:19 All right, you go to college, it takes probably a few more years over 20 to get that job skill, depending on where you’re going to be, a physician, a position, or whatever. “Shall we not much rather be in submission unto the Father of spirits and live?” Who’s the Father of spirits? God. The Spirit of God moved on the face of the water. “I will pour out My Spirit,” speaking of the Holy Ghost. Spirit of God. The evil spirits, did they come from God? Oh, you’re afraid to say. Yeah, they did. “Without Him was not anything made.” They rebelled and became evil spirits.

▶ 38:20 “For they chastened us after their own pleasure, but He for our profit.” Now there is fathers who want you to be quiet when they’re watching the football game, and will beat the tar out of you because you’re playing and get excited, and “You stupid kid, I told you to be quiet, I’m watching football.” See, that’s for their pleasure, that’s for their game, or they’re intent on a movie or whatever, and the kid’s crying, or, you know, like kids do, and the father lashes out. Yeah, they correct them for their own convenience. A real father doesn’t do that, doesn’t correct for their own convenience.

▶ 38:59 He corrects to train them up in the way they should go, and if that kid needs attention, he turns the TV off and he gives the kid the attention it needs at that time. Wow, that was good. That’s the difference between disciplining for convenience and disciplining for future development. See, that’s the difference between a value on your kid above the value of the football game, of the value of the movie, above the value of whatever it is. That’s the difference between a real father and a lousy father. Could that be an amen?

▶ 39:39 And remember, women, you’re included in the spiritual part. “But He for our profit.” See, God deals with us for our profit, that we might be “partakers of His holiness,” His righteousness. See, He corrects us for our good, not because He, you know, is inconvenienced. Now here we have number six: “Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous; nevertheless afterward it yields,” number six, “the peaceable fruit of righteousness.” The peaceable fruit of righteousness, you see, “to them which are exercised thereby.” Isn’t that beautiful? See, that’s what a father does.

▶ 40:37 He’s out to raise his kid to make right decisions and live rightly in this world. A child can reject that, many children do, and they pay the price for it. Some repent and come back to what’s right, others go on and are destroyed in this life because they didn’t follow the instruction, the correction of the father. And God is our Father, and His goal is to get you to where you understand righteousness, live righteousness, and speak righteousness. Hallelujah. And that’s the high quality of a real father. He wants in the spiritual world the church to be righteous, and in the natural world the children to be righteous and be responsible.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 12:9-11 (NKJV)

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

— Hebrews 12:9-11 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 37:30

What is the “meat” of the Word, and why are many still on milk? (Hebrews 5:12-13; 6:1-2)

▶ Watch this part (41:40)

Short answer: He says “the meat of the Word is righteousness” and that many are “still on milk, and milk only.” Reading Hebrews 5:12 he says they “ought to be teachers” but still need the first principles he lists from Hebrews 6:1, which he calls baby doctrine, and that “all who partake only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a baby.” He says “no one has a right to teach anything but what the Bible tells us to teach.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 41:40 Now, I told you last week we will learn what the meat of the Word is. The meat of the Word is righteousness. Okay, it is sad that so many people are still on milk, and milk only. Hebrews 5:12: “Although by this time you ought to be teachers.” Okay, he’s saying to these Hebrews, you know, you’ve been in Christ long enough, you should be a teacher, you should be an example. “You need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles,” or living Word, “of God.” How many remember what the first principles are? Hebrews 6:1: faith toward God, repentance from dead works, baptism of the Holy Ghost, baptism in water, baptism in the body, laying on of hands, resurrection, eternal judgment.

▶ 42:44 He says you haven’t even passed kindergarten yet. You haven’t even passed the newborn stage yet. You haven’t got repentance down, you haven’t got faith down, you haven’t got water baptism down, you haven’t been filled with the Holy Ghost and power, you haven’t been placed into the body as God wants you to be. You’re scared to death for someone to lay hands on you and bless you and impart to you, and you’re hung up on the second coming, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. That’s all you think about. That’s all baby food. That’s all baby doctrine.

▶ 43:24 “You have come to need milk and not strong meat.” So milk is the what? First principles of God, the baby doctrine. Strong meat, solid food. “All who partake only of milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness.” When all you can handle is baby food and you haven’t even passed the baby food yet, you haven’t got a passing grade in kindergarten, you’re unskillful in the word of righteousness. You don’t even like to hear messages on righteousness, to be honest with you. You want to hear that once saved always saved. You want to hear that no matter what you do, God loves you and you’re going to go to heaven.

▶ 44:14 That’s what you want to hear, because what? You’re a baby. “All who partake only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a baby.” Just letting you think on it. This is the writer of Hebrews talking, it’s not me, don’t blame me. This is what the apostles taught, and no one has a right to teach anything but what the Bible tells us to teach. “No one but strong meat,” which is, say it, the word of righteousness. “The strong meat, solid food, belongs to those who are full age,” adults, mature, that is the young men and the father stage, “those who by reason of use,” by practice, practice.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 5:12-13 (NKJV)

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.

— Hebrews 5:12-13 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 42:01
Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 6:1-2 (NKJV)

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

— Hebrews 6:1-2 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 42:29

How do you become mature: practice, exercised senses, and judging good and evil? (Hebrews 5:14)

▶ Watch this part (45:27)

Short answer: He says “we put time into natural things, we need to put time into spiritual things,” like young men who go to the gym but won’t “exercise that spiritual man.” Reading Hebrews 5:14, he says the apostle is telling us to judge: senses “exercised, trained, to discern, to judge both good and evil.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 45:27 You know, these young men have no problem going to the gym and putting in time to be buffed so the girls will go, “Woo, look at his body,” but you can’t get him to open the Bible and exercise that spiritual man. And I know there’s couch potato men in this hour and day. They do nothing but play electronic games and watch football and basketball and so forth, and they’re not buffed at all, they’re wimps, they’re just a bunch of wimps walking around. But they put practice into being a wimp, is my point. They exercise being a wimp, and you say, “Let me see your muscle,” and nothing pops up, drops down.

▶ 46:23 See, we put time into natural things, we need to put time into spiritual things, we need to practice them. “And have their senses,” their judgment. Everybody’s saying don’t judge, and here the apostle is telling us to what? Judge. “Have their senses,” their judgment, their understanding, “exercised,” trained, “to discern,” to judge, “both good and evil.” Now, are we to judge? Yes. Are we to judge what’s good and what’s evil? Yes. Jesus said it, the apostles are saying it. Forget Oprah Winfrey and all these people that say the Bible says don’t judge, they don’t even understand the Bible.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Hebrews 5:14 (NKJV)

But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

— Hebrews 5:14 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 46:31

How do you know you are righteous, and what does “faith in your faith” mean? (1 John 3:7)

▶ Watch this part (47:11)

Short answer: He reads 1 John 3:7, “He who practices righteousness is righteous,” and says “you cannot have faith in your faith”: you can’t just believe you are saved or have the baptism of the Holy Ghost “without the evidence of it.” He says we are righteous because we “practice what is right,” with embryos and newborns expected to still have unrighteousness, children who “keep the Word of God,” and young men and fathers who “live righteously.”

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 47:11 1 John 3:7: “Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous.” I told you before, and I’ve told you many times, you cannot have faith in your faith. You cannot just have faith that you have the baptism of the Holy Ghost without the evidence of it. You can’t just believe you’re saved because you believe you’re saved and you don’t have the evidence of it. That’s faith in your faith. You can’t just believe you’re going to heaven when you die and don’t have the evidence of it, the proof of it. That’s faith in your faith, and the Bible doesn’t tell us to have faith in our faith.

▶ 48:11 Are you with me? We are righteous because we what? Practice what is right. Now, some of us are at different levels. That’s the growth thing. When you’re a new embryo we expect you to have unrighteousness in your life. When you’re a newborn baby we expect you to have some unrighteous areas in your life, because you’re a newborn baby, there’s no problem with that, you’re growing. Children, they keep the Word of God. All right, now we’re starting to get righteousness. Young men, they overcome the wicked one, the evil. They are living righteously, and the fathers live righteously. The results are the evidence.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

1 John 3:7 (NKJV)

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

— 1 John 3:7 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 47:11

More questions this message answers

Short answers drawn only from what he says in this message, each with the moment in the video.

What does he say the word “know” means in the Bible?

He says “know” means to understand, to be aware of, to recognize something, but “knowing God is an intimate relationship,” and that you know Him if you keep His commandments.

▶ Watch at 0:00

Why does he say John 1 is hard to understand?

He says “this chapter threw me for quite a few years till I grew in the Word,” and that “you got to get past the little baby doctrines and get into the richness of the Bible.”

▶ Watch at 2:15

Scripture (NKJV)

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

— John 1:1-14 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 3:22

Who does he say created the world?

He says John “emphasizes that Jesus created the world, created everything, and without Him nothing was made that was made.”

▶ Watch at 3:19

What does he mean by “four” involved in creation?

He says in Genesis 1 “you’re going to find the God four involved in creation. How many? Four. What are you used to? Three,” and later describes “one God doing things with four different explanations: God, the Holy Ghost, the Word, and Jesus.” This is his teaching, shown here as he said it.

▶ Watch at 6:26

Did God have a “plan B” after Adam and Eve sinned?

No. He says “He never had a plan B. He had one plan the whole time, and that was Jesus Christ, reconciling people back to God, back to what is right, and filling heaven with people that would repent and turn.”

▶ Watch at 11:47

Why does he say many young people lack motivation?

He says it is “because there’s a lack of fatherhood in the home,” and that “fathers are there to motivate you” and to make you into an adult “that can sustain themselves.”

▶ Watch at 15:18

What does he say most ministers are teaching?

He says “most ministers are just teaching baby doctrines all the time” and “a lot of ministers are teaching embryo stuff,” and that listeners are also at fault for “listening to the radio where all you hear is embryo preaching.”

▶ Watch at 24:42

Does he say evil spirits came from God?

He asks who the Father of spirits is (God) and whether the evil spirits came from God, answering “yeah, they did” since “without Him was not anything made,” and says “they rebelled and became evil spirits.”

▶ Watch at 37:19

Scripture (NKJV)

Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

— Hebrews 12:9 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 37:30

What does he say about fathers who correct children for their own convenience?

He says a real father “doesn’t correct for their own convenience,” but “to train them up in the way they should go,” and calls it “the difference between disciplining for convenience and disciplining for future development.”

▶ Watch at 38:20

What does he say are the “first principles” of Hebrews 6:1?

He lists faith toward God, repentance from dead works, baptism of the Holy Ghost, baptism in water, baptism in the body, laying on of hands, resurrection, and eternal judgment, and calls them baby doctrine.

▶ Watch at 41:40

Scripture (NKJV)

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

— Hebrews 6:1-2 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 42:29

What does he say people who are still babies want to hear?

He says, “You want to hear that once saved always saved. You want to hear that no matter what you do God loves you and you’re going to go to heaven. That’s what you want to hear, because what? You’re a baby.”

▶ Watch at 44:14

Does he say Christians should judge?

He says “everybody’s saying don’t judge, and here the apostle is telling us to what? Judge,” meaning to discern “what’s good and what’s evil,” and says “Jesus said it, the apostles are saying it.”

▶ Watch at 46:23

What does he mean by “faith in your faith”?

He says you can’t just believe you’re saved or going to heaven “and don’t have the evidence of it, the proof of it. That’s faith in your faith,” and that “the Bible doesn’t tell us to have faith in our faith.”

▶ Watch at 47:11

Scripture (NKJV)

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

— 1 John 3:7 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 47:11

About this transcript

This transcript comes from YouTube’s automatic English captions, which supply the timing and the words. Punctuation, capitalization and paragraphing were added by hand, and obvious caption errors were corrected; his wording was not rewritten. “[unclear]” marks a word or name that was not clear. Editor notes: the captions read “1 John 2133 and4” for 1 John 2:13 and 14 (about 0:00), and “Hebs 12:5” for Hebrews 12:5; he says “1 Peter 1:22” and then reads words that are in 1 Peter 1:22-23; he says “1 John 1:2, I mean John 1:12” and means John 1:12; he reads “Revelations 3:14” and Revelation 13:8 without naming a reference. Several of his readings are paraphrases rather than word-for-word Scripture, so the NKJV text is shown separately. His statement that Genesis 1 involves “four” persons is his teaching and is shown as he said it. No passages were marked [unclear] in this message. Select any time to jump to that moment on YouTube.

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