Full message · Bible Morality Banned by Wimps and Born by Warriors

Adding Love: How to Love Criminals: full transcript and answers

Bible Morality Banned by Wimps and Born by Warriors · Part 13 · Pastor David G. Kincer, Vine Cluster Church · Uploaded November 6, 2014 · 13:37

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From the sermonAdding Love: How to Love Criminals · Pastor David G. Kincer▶ 0:00

The speaker distinguishes loving criminals from loving neighbors. Using Boko Haram kidnappings, a trafficking re-entry case, and a firefighter child-abuse case, he says force, strong law, conversion, and removal—not cheek-turning or medical missions alone—restrain the malicious. Esther’s exposure of Haman and Romans 13:4 show civil authority as God’s avenger; James 5:20 calls for converting the sinner.

How is loving the criminal different from loving a neighbor?

▶ Watch this part (0:36)

Short answer: He says this is a different program: loving the sinner/criminal who maliciously violates God’s word and your freedom. He points to Boko Haram kidnapping teenage girls into slavery and forced “marriage,” citing their religion’s allowance of young marriage because Muhammad did.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 0:36 And we’re going to talk about adding love to our faith—how to love the sinner, the criminal, the one that maliciously, purposely violates the word of God, violates your freedom, your rights. This is a different program. How do you love these people? I got Boko Haram up here, the leader of it, a group over in Africa who just kidnapped 200 young ladies in their teens from 13 to like 17 years old. We all read about it. Force them into slavery because he says his religion you can have slaves. Force them to marry—they call it marriage. She has no choice, because in their religion, the Muslim religion, you can marry girls as young as 9 years old because Muhammad did. He has kidnapped over 500 girls. He has kidnapped boys to go into his military. These girls are forced to carry water, clean, cook, and do everything, and then at night have sex. They don’t have any freedom. They don’t have any choice.

Do groups like Boko Haram listen to prayer, negotiation, or force?

▶ Watch this part (1:57)

Short answer: He mocks praying they are “good guys” and negotiating; America and Nigeria try to negotiate, but they listen to the sword. Revelation: they that live by the sword die by the sword. Only stronger force contains those who use force.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 1:57 Now you’re going to go to this guy and his group with their guns and their brutality and go, I’m praying for you, you guys are really good guys in heart, I know you, I especially—I talk to your mom and your mom says you’re a good boy? You think you’re going to negotiate? America and Nigeria is trying to negotiate with this group. They don’t listen to negotiations. They listen to the sword. In Revelation, they that live by the sword die by the sword. There’s only one thing they listen to is force, because they use force. The only thing that will contain them is a more stronger force.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Revelation 13:10 (NKJV)

He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

— Revelation 13:10 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 2:00 (quoted; reference not named in the message)

Do medical and dental missions fix brutal groups, in his view?

▶ Watch this part (2:47)

Short answer: He says American Christians think fixing teeth and giving medicine wins them to Christ, but then they are healthier to do more brutal stuff—stupid thinking that needs to change.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 2:47 And American Christians—well, we’ll go over and we’ll have a medical and dental program and try to win them to Christ. So we go in and fix their teeth and we give them medicine, and now they’re healthier to do more brutal stuff. This is the way we think in America, and this is the message that need to get out. We need to change this stupid thinking.

What trafficking case does he cite involving illegal re-entry?

▶ Watch this part (3:18)

Short answer: He names Isaiah Mendez and his brother: repeatedly arrested for illegal re-entry, returned with food and money, then caught running a slavery program forcing girls into labor and sex with many men daily. They were convicted and imprisoned.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 3:18 This guy here, Isaiah Mendez, and his brother had already been arrested for illegal re-entry into the USA. Oh, you’re here illegally—we’ll just take you back. We’ll feed you, give you a nice bed till we get you back there, and we’ll give you some money so you got money to spend when you get back to Mexico. Now you stay in Mexico. Okay, they’re right back. They get arrested again and they get arrested again. They’re illegals. But then they caught them running a slavery program. They enslaved hundreds to thousands of girls forced to labor, forced to work, and forced to have sex with men—up to 40 men a day at $30 for 15 minutes. That takes 10 hours.

Does he call open-border policy humanitarianism?

▶ Watch this part (4:29)

Short answer: He says Republicans and Democrats welcome the sick, criminals, bombers, and sex molesters and call it humanitarianism, but it is not when entrants enslave and force people. Bible strangers are welcome if they obey the law of the land; close the border.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 4:29 And the Republicans and a Democrat—they don’t want anybody not coming over to America. We’re the land of the free and home of the brave. We want your sick, your criminals—we want your bomb—we want your sex molesters—bring them on. And they try to tell us Americans that is humanitarianism. It’s not humanitarianism when you got people coming in and enslaving and forcing people to do what they don’t want to do. Amen. And they’re brainwashing us. They need to close that border down. There in the Bible strangers are welcome in the land if they obey the law of the land, if they obey just like anybody else. They don’t have a right to violate it. Is that a good amen? The Bible has answers for these things. They were convicted and found guilty and they’re in prison right now.

What firefighter abuse case does he describe?

▶ Watch this part (5:36)

Short answer: He describes a Connecticut fire chief and another firefighter arrested in Vermont for aggravated sexual assault and trafficking involving a boy from age 12; they pleaded not guilty; one then committed suicide. He rejects assuming “innocent” claims equal honesty.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 5:36 This guy here is a fire chief, Connecticut fire department. He, 39 years old, and his friend, another firefighter, 42 years old, were arrested recently by the Vermont state police, charged with aggravated sexual assault and slave trafficking to have sex with them and other men. And this boy was 12 years old. And for years they forced him to have sex with them and other young men that they brought into their apartment. They got caught. They were arrested—him and his friend, his buddy, were arrested. They both pleaded in the court not guilty. We didn’t do nothing. Not guilty. Next week he killed himself. He committed suicide. Why? He could not handle the public going through his past and going through what his action is. So he took the chicken way out, the coward way out, and killed himself—yet he wasn’t guilty?

Will blessing and praying convert such a predator?

▶ Watch this part (7:06)

Short answer: He says no—doing good will not convert him. He needed strong discipline, punishment, and laws, and if that failed, removal from society so he could not hurt anybody.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 7:06 You know, I don’t know where we get this idea of people going to be honest with us. Oh, he says he’s innocent. You see criminals walking into the police station—I’m a child molester, I’m a murderer, I’m a rapist? Oh yeah, yeah. No. Oh, I’m an upstanding citizen. Are you there? Twelve years old till in his 20s, and finally the boy come to his senses and goes there’s something wrong here, went to the authorities. They found it true, got the evidence, and the guy killed himself. You think blessing him and praying for him was going to change him? You think doing good to this guy is going to convert him? No. He needed strong discipline, strong punishment, strong laws, and if that didn’t work he needed to be removed out of society so he couldn’t hurt anybody. Could that be an amen?

What does Esther and Haman teach about dealing with the wicked?

▶ Watch this part (8:11)

Short answer: He recounts Esther 7: Esther exposes Haman as adversary and enemy before the king, who had authority to deal with him without praying or speaking good—and Haman was hanged on his own gallows. The key: wicked, purposeful, habitual intent to hurt and kill.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 8:11 Esther chapter 7:6. Esther was one of the wives of the king of Persia. Here—uh—that takes fortitude in itself to handle being married to a pagan king with a whole bunch of other wives. This lady’s got her act together, unlike a lot of American women who fall apart any little pressure that comes in their home or whatever. This lady had a relationship with God that was powerful. And Haman was a guy that didn’t like her guardian Mordecai, because Mordecai was a righteous man, stood for righteousness and righteous laws. And so he wanted to kill Mordecai because Mordecai would not bow to him. He wouldn’t give in to his civil leadership authority, because Mordecai knew his wicked heart. He knew he was out to kill all Jews. And Haman had this plan to kill all Jews and Mordecai.

▶ 9:27 So Esther goes to the king and says, king, I want you to come to my quarters and I’m going to feed you a meal, and I want you invite Haman. And so the king he comes down there and his wife fixes him a beautiful meal, and she’s a beautiful lady, the Bible says. I mean the king’s in hog heaven. He just—he’s got a beautiful wife, he’s got a beautiful meal. Boy, I tell you. And he says, okay now Esther, what else you want done? He said, I want you to come back tomorrow. I’m going to feed you another great meal. Man, I’ll be even more beautiful tomorrow. And so the king comes back the next day, and then in the meal Esther turns to the king and said, this man Haman is our adversary and enemy—he’s wicked. And when she said that, Haman got afraid before the king. Why? The king had authority to deal with him. King didn’t have to pray for anybody. He didn’t have to speak good to anybody. He had the authority to straighten him out or to set him free. So Haman right quick is afraid, and the king walked out on the balcony to think things over, and Haman knelt down before Queen Esther begging her—you know, don’t do this, don’t do this. And he comes back in and he sees Haman on his wife, took him out and hung him on the gallows that he wanted to hang Mordecai and the Jews on. Hallelujah.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

Esther 7:6 (NKJV)

And Esther said, “The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman!” So Haman was terrified before the king and queen.

— Esther 7:6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 8:11

How then do you love criminals, according to the sermon?

▶ Watch this part (11:13)

Short answer: He cites James 5:20—convert the sinner—and Romans 13:4—civil authorities as avengers of wrath on evildoers. Turn or burn now (pay the price), not merely hell later. You do not turn the other cheek; that is why Jesus did not use that principle in those situations.

From the sermonTranscript of this part · Pastor David G. Kincer

▶ 11:13 But the key here: he’s wicked. He’s maliciously, on purpose, habitually wanting to hurt people, wanting to kill people, wanting to take their freedom and their rights away from them. That’s a big difference. That’s right. James 5:20, convert the sinner from the error of his way and you will save a soul from death and you’ll hide a multitude of sins. All right. Number one, civil authorities need to deal with wicked people. Number two, we got to convert them. They got to change—their one way they got to convert to another way. Their evil way they got to convert to a right way. And that’s how you deal with criminals. They got to be converted. And God in Romans 13:4 instituted civil authorities to be the avenger to execute wrath upon him that does evil like Haman did. You see, either they turn or they’re going to burn. And I’m not talking about hell—they’re going to burn now. They got to pay the price. Now. You can’t be out there hurting people in society. That’s how you love the criminal. You don’t turn the other cheek. These people don’t listen to turn the other cheek. They don’t listen to going the other mile. They don’t listen to you finding something good in them to talk about. Are you there? See, that’s why Jesus did not use this principle in these situations.

Scripture in this part

Scripture (NKJV)

James 5:20 (NKJV)

let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

— James 5:20 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:20
Scripture (NKJV)

Romans 13:4 (NKJV)

For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

— Romans 13:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:40

More questions this message answers

Short answers drawn only from what he says in this message, each with the moment in the video.

What does he say Boko Haram did?

He says they kidnapped about 200 teenage girls (and over 500 girls total), boys for military, forced labor and sex, with no freedom or choice.

▶ Watch at 0:36

What Revelation principle does he apply to violent groups?

They that live by the sword die by the sword—force is what they listen to, so stronger force contains them.

▶ Watch at 1:57

Scripture (NKJV)

He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

— Revelation 13:10 (NKJV) (quoted; reference not named in the message)▶ Hear it at 2:00

What happened to the Mendez brothers in his account?

They were convicted, found guilty, and are in prison for the slavery/trafficking program after repeated illegal re-entries.

▶ Watch at 3:18

What does he say the Bible says about strangers in the land?

Strangers are welcome if they obey the law of the land like anybody else; they do not have a right to violate it.

▶ Watch at 4:29

What does he make of the not-guilty plea then suicide?

He says the man pleaded not guilty then killed himself rather than face public exposure of his actions—calling it the coward way out—and rejects assuming criminals will walk in and confess.

▶ Watch at 5:36

What does he admire about Esther?

He says she had fortitude as wife of a pagan king with many wives and a powerful relationship with God, unlike many who fall apart under little pressure.

▶ Watch at 8:11

Scripture (NKJV)

And Esther said, “The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman!” So Haman was terrified before the king and queen.

— Esther 7:6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 8:11

Did the Persian king need to pray for Haman?

He says the king had authority to straighten him out or set him free—he did not have to pray or speak good to him.

▶ Watch at 9:27

Scripture (NKJV)

And Esther said, “The adversary and enemy is this wicked Haman!” So Haman was terrified before the king and queen.

— Esther 7:6 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 9:27

What does “turn or burn” mean here?

He says either criminals convert to a right way or they burn now—pay the price under civil wrath—not only referring to hell.

▶ Watch at 11:13

Scripture (NKJV)

For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

— Romans 13:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:40

Why did Jesus not use turn-the-other-cheek with criminals?

Because these people do not listen to cheek-turning, going the extra mile, or finding something good to say about them.

▶ Watch at 11:13

What two steps does he give for dealing with criminals?

One, civil authorities deal with the wicked; two, convert them from an evil way to a right way (James 5:20).

▶ Watch at 11:13

Scripture (NKJV)

let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

— James 5:20 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:20
Scripture (NKJV)

For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.

— Romans 13:4 (NKJV)▶ Hear it at 11:40

About this transcript

This transcript comes from YouTube’s automatic English captions, which supply the timing and the words. Punctuation, capitalization and paragraphing were added by hand, and obvious caption errors were corrected; his wording was not rewritten. “[unclear]” marks a word or name that was not clear. HIGHLY SENSITIVE: names Boko Haram/Muhammad; “Isaiah Mendez” (caption; verify spelling); named Connecticut/Vermont firefighter case and suicide; graphic trafficking and child-sex abuse details kept as spoken; border/immigration politics; critique of Muslims’ marriage age claim; gendered aside on American women vs Esther. Caption fixes: Boko Haram, Mordecai/Haman, Revelation. Statistics/cases not independently verified here—flag for Michael. Speaker not named—confirm Kincer. Select any time to jump to that moment on YouTube.

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